Please explain how to deal with Harassment in-game in SOLO

Quote from nadii95

Quote from darknessfall77

Quote from nadii95

Quote from darknessfall77

Quote from Zhirelia

Well ... to be clear at the beginning:

This is my personal opinion about this topic and has nothing to do with my position as a SMod.

Please don't put word in my mouth either ...

I didn't say there's no punishment for harassment.

But not everyone has to agree that it's harassment too just because you see it as such.

Would be nice if you let us ourselve to choose, if we want to follow your definition or not.

My personal opinion is, that being killed once/twice is not a harassment.

As I mentioned it already in the past; if you think that someone is harassing you,

no one will stop you to write a ticket to the game support.

They will look into this. This is something, which can't be generalized.

But that's exactly what you're doing here; just generalizing things.

Still I see you can't give the system as it is a chance to prove (wrong) your statement. Why not?

Did you already try it out on CN/TW server or how do you have this opinion?

Being honest; I can't and I won't discuss over a topic and pick a side not before I could try out first. It's somehow unfair.

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You don't need to test it out as far as I'm concerned.

Is human nature. As long as there is a human element to deal with, then those people will abuse and harass others. For example, if you place a ton of meat in front of a lion, do you sit back and wait while telling others "The lion may not eat the meat, maybe he will grow a unicorn horn and dance instead?" We all know that he's going to eat the free-meat. It's merely a matter of time. But yes, cant stop it regardless.

You can't just place a system that allows griefing in-game (cause that's what it is, especially with the faction details revealed making rampage mode irrelevant) and expect humans to "Use it wisely and not abuse it" "Don't use it" Are all my opinions of course.

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No. Its like convicting a person for a crime the person has yet to commit. This is exactly your example and its pointless and doesnt make any sense.

"You cant just place a system that allows griefing ingame". - Yes they can and they did. Does that mean every player will run around and use it to grief? No.

Theres a punishment system for it and you cannot judge something you have not experienced yet.

Im not even a PVP player but i cant judge something i have not seen yet and i wont. As a non PVP player, i find this system actually pretty interesting. I have never seen a prison mechanic in a MMORPG before and to me its awesome.

I just cant take any comments of you serious, because all i read is - "IF" - "THEY MIGHT" and other pointless assumptions.

If you have 10 people working on a project and one of them is "griefing" the others by taking away their pencil or something like that, what would you do?

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I see what's going on here. My sentence that your quoting actually didn't end there. The parentheses () in the middle must have confused you while you were reading it. You take a sentence of mine, cut it in half and then create a false narrative to argue against.

Also, it does work. Since you yourself compared it to crime also, let's use another example. There's a thief who has been convicted in the past for stealing millions of priceless artifacts: Knowing this, when a priceless artifact goes missing, who do you think did it?

If there is a well-known murder on the loose in the town, next door to you, are you going to go to bed with your doors unlocked?

What I'm saying is that its human nature to be evil creatures and cause harm and harass others. Putting a system in the game that does just that, you expect the humans to just turn a new leaf? Some things are obvious. Such as don't jump into a volcano and you won't get burned. Place a grief system in-game, and humans will use it.

Apologies for the very grim examples above.

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Your entire sentence is there in that quote above, where you also quoted me. i didnt edit anything. I wrote that myself because thats what i wanted to give an answer to, i didnt create anything so stop portraying it like that.

"There's a thief who has been convicted in the past for stealing millions of priceless artifacts: Knowing this, when a priceless artifact goes missing, who do you think did it?" - So with your logic, we should stop selling artifacts because there are thiefs. - Why are we trying to live if we die anyway?

Pointless.

"If there is a well-known murderer on the loose in the town, next door to you, are you going to go to bed with your doors unlocked?" - Oh theres a well-known murderer on the loose, i guess we should ban all tools he can use to hurt others, instead of making use of our Law and Justice. Why bother locking up a murderer, just ban knifes and guns so he cant harm anyone. Oh but he can use so many other tools as well? Well i guess we ban all other tools too, so he cant hurt anyone anymore. But wait.. we need these tools to work on houses and roads? Doesnt matter, dont you see? In the end, he can still use his hands.

Pointless.

Im sorry, but are you trying to convince me or yourself? It sounds more like you are trying to convince yourself here.

Quote from Byokko

TBF, those "if" and "might" etc, probabily DO come from experiences in other (similar) Game.

My first time seeing a Jail system, was actually in my very first MMORPG: Ragnarok Online. People who got reported for their behavious got jailed by GMs... for days. everyday they would login, they would only sit in their jail cell, waiting until their punishment time would run out.



My experience in PK and getting killed hit super deep in AION, where they would camp a low level teleport and kill lowies for example.

Later in BDO for example, the moment i Hit 45 (the level that starts open world pvp basically) I could not complete a single quest anymore.



But yea, I am all for giving the system a chance, but I also want to voice my concern.

And your last question:

Either digging my nails in his throat and throwing him out the window, or taking his hand and plucking all nails individually.

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I dont mind that, as long as you voice your concern AFTER you have experienced the system. Give it a chance and then scream and shout, but dont do it the other way around. This way i can take you serious and understand you.

Like i said before, lets wait out and experience the system for ourselves. Let Gameforge also collect some data on it.

This system can always be changed afterwards, but it is NECESSARY to give it a try.

And to your answer to my question: See you dont just throw out the project or disband the entire group, but you "punish" the one who is griefing the group and thats exactly what i mean with this system. To give it a try and see if it works as a punishment. If not it can be changed and if people truly grief hard (like real harassment) you can always write the support instead of blaming the entire system. (just like the example)

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Oh sorry, it's just if I see "signs" I like to voice that. I am not a friend of "Only doing something AFTER something happened" (for example only putting redlights up AFTER 100 car crashes with 50 deaths) kind of stuff.

But yes, tho I didn't experience it on my own body character I already saw some streams and videos about it, will test it myself from tomorrow onwards, treating my friend as a guinea pig.

But personally I cannot understand why any PKer would be against making it so, only those who are in Rampage mode themselves can be attacked, IF it's really true that the emphasis is on "OPEN WORLD". If so, there is no reason why one could leave out PvE people and only going for PvP people "IN OPEN WORLD" what they claim is, what makes it "so different" from other PvP modes.

Because it's not like without Rampage or ANY PK, there would be NO PvP at all.

I just suspect, that the actual "allure" of Rampage aka "general PK" is not that it's in "open world" as compared to specific maps, but rather that there is "easy prey" or as one likes to say in German "Mopfer" (translates to something like "mobbing victim").

Also I have yet to test out, how the Yin Qi works on Rampage, if the victim ultimately gets killed (last hit) by a monster rather than the player.

But what I DO hope is, that there will be some kind of list or World Map with markings or something, that clearly states which maps are Rampage Free (I only know of housing area so far)

Quote from GrailQuest

Quote from nadii95

Theres a punishment system for using Rampage, so whats the problem? They will get in prison eventually and have to stay there. If they want to waste their time there, by all means.

I don't care about THEIR time. I care about MINE. And they would have wasted enough of mine when I could have just put them on Ignore and be done.

The fact that they have wasted MY time is probably enough of a win for them.

whoa dude. it sounds like you've got some anger issues. Maybe this game isn't for you. Guild Wars 2 has no PK, so maybe that game is better for you.

A lot of western gamers seem to be way to entitled and whiny over things that aren't even issues. This is why game devs rarely listen to players. like what do you expect them to do? totally kill their game because one guy got killed on rampage mode?

Some people need to taste the occasional failure in life, instead of being flowers in a greenhouse.

Quote from GrailQuest

Quote from dojolow1

Quote from GrailQuest

Quote from nadii95

Theres a punishment system for using Rampage, so whats the problem? They will get in prison eventually and have to stay there. If they want to waste their time there, by all means.

I don't care about THEIR time. I care about MINE. And they would have wasted enough of mine when I could have just put them on Ignore and be done.

The fact that they have wasted MY time is probably enough of a win for them.

whoa dude. it sounds like you've got some anger issues. Maybe this game isn't for you. Guild Wars 2 has no PK, so maybe that game is better for you.

A lot of western gamers seem to be way to entitled and whiny over things that aren't even issues. This is why game devs rarely listen to players. like what do you expect them to do? totally kill their game because one guy got killed on rampage mode?

Some people need to taste the occasional failure in life, instead of being flowers in a greenhouse.

Maybe you should read the original post first.

This game is just not for you. There are other games that fit you. Maybe try looking for those?

So, now I HAVE experienced the system. I'll mention here some points that came to my attention:

Rampage on:

- One cannot hurt people they are in a team with

- One can chose to ressurect in the world, get rezzt by team mates or CHOSE to go to jail after dying (tho it might get expensive, because dying damages the EQ heavly and a full repair costs about ~20g)

- Guards only seem to deal 1dmg/hit and don't chase very far (as all monsters reset pretty fast in this game)

- When attacking people who battle monsters, and they get killed (last hit) by the monster, rather than the PKer, the PKer does not get that extra -QI for PKing, so it is possible to extend the time to "be annoying"

- One can annoy people endlessly (even if effectivity decreases until cap), due to the fact, that one can actually get healed by non-rampage ppl. (in my case taking 3 healers and not be killable, unless people turn on rampage and kill the healers).

- The lightning not only stuns but deals dmg, the more Negative Qi the higher the damage. Seems to be around 50% hp at cap (150)

- Once in chail there are 3 possible repeatable quests:

-- NPC teaching you how to break out, tho i didn't get to it because the NPC was buggy and permanntly immune to all dmg (this npc also acts as a general trader, one can repair EQ etc)

-- NPC tell you to chant sutras (aka singing) that lets you decrease ur negative Qi passivly (takes about 7.5h)

-- NPC letting you carry rocks that rewards you with a pot that decreases Negative Qi by 4 (takes about 2h)

--- Carrying stone is super slow because "they are heavy"

- In jail, one should not forget to turn off Rampage, this doesn't happen automatically

- There are tons of NPCs to D-d-d-d-duel in card game~

- In jail the visuals are all grayscale with only reddish colors coming through, so ppl MIGHT feel weirded out looking at the screen like that for a while

- once the qi reaches 0, one seems to get kicked out, so there seems to be no "farming positive qi" in there, it's purly for "decreasing negative qi"

Quote from Byokko

- Guards only seem to deal 1dmg/hit and don't chase very far (as all monsters reset pretty fast in this game)

- When attacking people who battle monsters, and they get killed (last hit) by the monster, rather than the PKer, the PKer does not get that extra -QI for PKing, so it is possible to extend the time to "be annoying"

- One can annoy people endlessly (even if effectivity decreases until cap), due to the fact, that one can actually get healed by non-rampage ppl. (in my case taking 3 healers and not be killable, unless people turn on rampage and kill the healers).

So, these are your points, where adjustments need to be done, am I right?

• NPCs should deal more damage
• Players, who starts the fight, should also get negative Qi, even when the one dies of a monster's last hit
• Players in rampage mode shouldn't get heal from third party (accept their own heal)

Quote from Zhirelia

Quote from Byokko

- Guards only seem to deal 1dmg/hit and don't chase very far (as all monsters reset pretty fast in this game)

- When attacking people who battle monsters, and they get killed (last hit) by the monster, rather than the PKer, the PKer does not get that extra -QI for PKing, so it is possible to extend the time to "be annoying"

- One can annoy people endlessly (even if effectivity decreases until cap), due to the fact, that one can actually get healed by non-rampage ppl. (in my case taking 3 healers and not be killable, unless people turn on rampage and kill the healers).

So, these are your points, where adjustments need to be done, am I right?

• NPCs should deal more damage
• Players, who starts the fight, should also get negative Qi, even when the one dies of a monster's last hit
• Players in rampage mode shouldn't get heal from third party (accept their own heal)

Yes

TBF I only tested one spot for guards ( I posted the clip in the german section ), but they only did 1dmg tho they did all a dizzy-debuff so it was kinda hard to move once surrounded by 4 of them, but yea i still maanged to get away no problem (ofc other players didn't take the chance to attack me)

Also, maybe i just picked a bad spot, but there were almost no guards - I would imagine that it usually should be hard to even be able to go to a respawn/other npc or so when in rampage, also npc's should not want to deal with Rampaging people, so no repairing armor etc (unless on is a spearmaster i guess) ?

and yes

otherwise ppl migh target especially those fighting with monsters, just hit them a few times and then watch them die, without getting anymore than their regular -1qi (resp +1 negative qi)

and yes

players should either be unable to assist people in rampage mode, or as soon as they do have automatically turned rampage on as well. This would include Ressurecting dead Rampagers. (tho i dunno how visible/obvious it is, if the dead people are rampagers, this should be made obvious, as to not get tricked by people to be turned to rampagers [wtf this kinda sounds like some zombie game now... XD]
Also maybe Rampage ppl should not be able to be in a team in the first place?

(this would also prevent "organized PK" groups from forming, as there would always be a factor of "friendly fire")

So now what? 7,5h for -150QI, or 19h ....?

Like EVERYONE is telling a different Story on "HOW IT REALLY IS" .....

I am going to try to come into this conversation with a new hot-take here.

The PK system (and its potential for harassment) is both a good and strong incentive to actually join alliances and make friends in the game. And that in itself is a good thing.

If you are wanting to play through the end game entirely solo, and then getting ganked by PKer's who are seeking to grief, you have all the ability to set out and find people to help you. If you are suffering alone, it is because you are not taking advantage of the MMO aspect of the MMORPG genre, and that is making friends and accomplishing tasks greater than oneself in an interesting new world.

If you managed to get to max level, are getting ganked, and all your efforts to find people to help you are resulting in nothing, I would go so far as to wonder... What have you been doing this entire game socially and how have you been interacting with other players? If no one wants to help you even when someone is causing problems in the community, your situation may not be entirely the griefers fault. And the PK system is incredibly good not only for griefers, but for people who are being obnoxious and that you want out of the community in general. The system may be working as intended to enable the community to try to cause trouble for the people that are not making the game fun.

Not saying that is majority of cases, or even less. But I think there is a problem with how players are playing the game if this system leads to so much personal distress unrelated to the actual mechanics.

Quote from Caduryn

So now what? 7,5h for -150QI, or 19h ....?

Like EVERYONE is telling a different Story on "HOW IT REALLY IS" .....

150 x 3min = 450 min == 7.5h
(description says 1qi/3s, but it's actually 3min)

First of all, people that are "constantly PKing", people that are wasting their time with useless PK, doing useless good chi quests all the time and even dealing with jail times... These people will be DELETED/MASSACRED by dedicated PvP players who are wasting their precious time in actual PvP content(arenas, battlegrounds, guild and faction stuff), earning PvP rewards and getting better PvP gear.

Second, you can't call doing PvP in a PvP game a "harassment", it is like you go play Street Fighter and complain about harassment if someone punches you in the game.

I fully understand that SOLO and Street Fighter are different games and genres, but the point stands. SOLO is a PvP game, so there is OWPvP. Yes you can also pick flowers and walk around in SOLO, but the game is also a PvP playground, so there is no "harassment" if someone decides to start PvP with you, don't matter how many times.

Harassment may happen with text abuse, talk abuse, using the in game emotes to reproduce something inappropriate, etc. Doing PvP in a PvP game can never and will never be considered "harassment". Everytime you compare someone doing PvP in a PvP game with some real life crime your argument turns instantly in a very bad joke.

And to be honest this game already does a very good job in protecting people from OWPvP with safe areas, many matchmaking PvE content, people can't PK low level players, etc. If you're alone and want to do a dungeon, you don't need to go there, you can join via matchmaking. Even if you have a full group, by "joining" the matchmaking the game will understand that the group is full and everyone in the group will be teleported to the instance...

To finish, don't worry about some of these players saying they will constantly be PKing other players, I'm 100% sure they're just trying to look "edgy". PK is a waste of time and good PvPers will not waste too much time on it. These people claiming that they are going to go full rampage against everyone are for sure new players that don't even understand how PvP gear works, or PvE players desperate to see rampage removed and acting in disguise.

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Quote from LTCSmoke

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

Quote from Byokko

Quote from LTCSmoke

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

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Yesh I know, not as fun

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Byokko

Quote from LTCSmoke

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

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Yesh I know, not as fun

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Not as fun because its true PvP?

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Byokko

Quote from LTCSmoke

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

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Yesh I know, not as fun

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PKing is for those who are below skill level for real PvP.

Quote from Caduryn

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Byokko

Quote from LTCSmoke

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

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Yesh I know, not as fun

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Not as fun because its true PvP?

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Who died and made you king of the world mate? True PvP isn't something you get to decide, and if we were going to talk about "True PvP" it's goddamn sure not gonna be Arena PvP with a 30s countdown and all your skills are ready and shit, that's just Arena.

Holy moly.. "true PvP" my phat juicy ass

Quote from Rosy

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Byokko

Quote from LTCSmoke

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

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Yesh I know, not as fun

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PKing is for those who are below skill level for real PvP.

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Yeah sure you could argue that people that PK are worse skill wise, that's why I do all forms and shapes of it

It's just that some people really make PKing more fun that any other form of PvP

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Caduryn

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Byokko

Quote from LTCSmoke

Oh my god I tried reading all of this but I just can't.. People, if you don't like open world pvp go play something pve based like [REMOVED] hello kitty world stop being such whiners.

I will be spending most of my time after the game gets released in jail because it's fun to pvp, not all pvp has to be fair and square in an arena, nah bruh you could be afk and die.. This is gonna be so much fun

DON'T [REMOVED] RUIN IT!

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

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Yesh I know, not as fun

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Not as fun because its true PvP?

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Who died and made you king of the world mate? True PvP isn't something you get to decide, and if we were going to talk about "True PvP" it's goddamn sure not gonna be Arena PvP with a 30s countdown and all your skills are ready and shit, that's just Arena.

Holy moly.. "true PvP" my phat juicy ass

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How was anyone else supposes to know your definition of "true pvp" was to round up a couple of old grannies to fight. Or maybe I'm still wrong, and your definition is to attack 7-year-olds. Or maybe you only go after people with 20 hp points left in their hp bar. If that's still too tough, then maybe ask them to leave their keyboard before you even start the attack?

While I agree that the true definition is...somewhat subjective. What exactly is your definition? You forgot to explain which is why I'm left wondering.

Quote from darknessfall77

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Caduryn

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Byokko

Oh but there is plenty PvP without having to go to Jail, did you know? :3

Yesh I know, not as fun

Not as fun because its true PvP?

Who died and made you king of the world mate? True PvP isn't something you get to decide, and if we were going to talk about "True PvP" it's goddamn sure not gonna be Arena PvP with a 30s countdown and all your skills are ready and shit, that's just Arena.

Holy moly.. "true PvP" my phat juicy ass

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How was anyone else supposes to know your definition of "true pvp" was to round up a couple of old grannies to fight. Or maybe I'm still wrong, and your definition is to attack 7-year-olds. Or maybe you only go after people with 20 hp points left in their hp bar. If that's still too tough, then maybe ask them to leave their keyboard before you even start the attack?

While I agree that the true definition is...somewhat subjective. What exactly is your definition? You forgot to explain which is why I'm left wondering.

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Obviously it's subjective, that's what I meant with the king of the world part and that's also why I didn't bother explaining what true PvP is for me, which is basically all that you stated lol.. 20hp, 7 year olds, hell I'd even attack a player fresh off the tutorial.. I'm not sure about the old grannies part, I'm not even sure I understand that.. The thing about that is that either way, it's not because it's easier, it's just more fun

True pvp is player versus player in all forms, which other than arena and bigger 10vs10s or 15vs15s, also includes open world PVP (PK, faction wars), if you feel like it's way too hard to play a game where pvp is taken to where you chill and RP then go RP somewhere else mate

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from darknessfall77

Quote from LTCSmoke

Quote from Caduryn

Quote from LTCSmoke

Yesh I know, not as fun

Not as fun because its true PvP?

Who died and made you king of the world mate? True PvP isn't something you get to decide, and if we were going to talk about "True PvP" it's goddamn sure not gonna be Arena PvP with a 30s countdown and all your skills are ready and shit, that's just Arena.

Holy moly.. "true PvP" my phat juicy ass

How was anyone else supposes to know your definition of "true pvp" was to round up a couple of old grannies to fight. Or maybe I'm still wrong, and your definition is to attack 7-year-olds. Or maybe you only go after people with 20 hp points left in their hp bar. If that's still too tough, then maybe ask them to leave their keyboard before you even start the attack?

While I agree that the true definition is...somewhat subjective. What exactly is your definition? You forgot to explain which is why I'm left wondering.

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Obviously it's subjective, that's what I meant with the king of the world part and that's also why I didn't bother explaining what true PvP is for me, which is basically all that you stated lol.. 20hp, 7 year olds, hell I'd even attack a player fresh off the tutorial.. I'm not sure about the old grannies part, I'm not even sure I understand that.. The thing about that is that either way, it's not because it's easier, it's just more fun

True pvp is player versus player in all forms, which other than arena and bigger 10vs10s or 15vs15s, also includes open world PVP (PK, faction wars), if you feel like it's way too hard to play a game where pvp is taken to where you chill and RP then go RP somewhere else mate

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I feel like pvp in of itself isn't difficult in this game. Each class seems to do very well in a multitude of situations, and if you understand mechanics it's not particularly difficult to win. When it comes to true pvp I think of accessibility. Can everyone do it and have a good chance at success? I believe they can since this game gives you the tools you need, you just may need a team. As for open world I like the faction, but rampage feels odd to me. Without any form of rewards I feel like it's out of place. Thoughts?