Rampage (PK) Discussion

    Your playstyle is worthless/pointless, it adds zero value to your character, others or the entire community as a whole. Players with the same mindset can never log into the game and it would have zero effect on the general population.


    You get angry and drop F-bombs while still lacking substance in a heavily subjective post, posing as fact while the first sentence missing much-needed phrases such as: "I think or my opinion is" Besides, those same carebears would destroy you in PVP and make you drop the gear instead. That's the only reason you want easy kills right? Because anyone who's ready for you will most likely dispatch of you before they kill a mob.


    Respect the last part of your opinion, everyone has them after all. Quite frankly, you appear as a bit of a loose-cannon type from the post structure. I really hope they heavily adjust rampage mode or take it out completely so players with your playstyle can leave, and the rest of humanity and prosper and grow/evolve, etc. Yaknow.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    delete it? What for? to please some pveboys who will play another pve mmorpg in a few months? LOL


    Play the games as is or go play another mmorpg, they will NEVER remove the PK, the game is like that, period.

    A few questions: Where is the source for this? Where does it say they'll never remove the rampage system? Surely you know that games had things removed from them in the past right? What makes this game bullet-proof? lol

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    Tell me about an Asian mmorpg who saw some of his game design scrapped in the West. Not just tweaks but a removal as important as the karma / luck / PK system.


    I am waiting.

    Please try not to de-rail the thread with these ludacris assertions of insubstantial merit. I will not indulge in a simple conversation that a google search could solve. Use google.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    LOL, you dream, they will never remove the PK, go play FF14 I tell you. Use google yourself, you will find nothing.

    You only said, in what games you like to PKK and that you sometimes like to PK when you are bored.
    This did not tell me "what is fun about PK"? x:

    PS: um, also i just reread and noticed "Nothing more is more horrible than limitations in an mmorpg"

    how about the limitation of not being able opt out of pvp? x:
    (also there is a lot of more limitations in SOLO, almost everything is limited in some way or another XD)

    Quote from kerath

    It's to PK for people who want to PK... What else is needed to be said on this? I'm super confused.

    Ignorance is understandable and to be expected. But there's actually a couple of Pk systems in this game.


    The rampage system (Inferior) is only useful for players who aren't that great at PVP to enjoy the benefits of attacking anyone anywhere at anytime. Including pve players fighting mobs/half-dead players etc. to make the fight easy for them. These players will never attack any players in PVP gear and will always wait for the easiest opportunity to strike.


    The faction system, the superior Pk mode is useful for players who are severely better skilled than the rampager, allows you to turn your Pk mode on manually in order to be attacked. Ones who enjoy a great mind-stimulating battle. These users have zero to worry about from a rampager because they'd never initiate an attack on this type of user. If they did, then they would just simply dispose of the rampager.


    You're welcome.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    I remember a time when PKers were viewed as the scum of the earth in mmorpgs, even by other PvPers and where the penalty was at least 3 days (real time) in jail. From some of their comments here it seems it's now perfectly natural to want to kill pve equipped players who aren't interested in forced PvP, is a guaranteed pathetic win which means absolutely nothing regarding how good/bad they are at pvp, will not give them any rewards, will not get gear, or on any leaderboards and will put them in prison. The only upside I can see for them is that they can open their filthy little mouths and trash you without getting reported. In the discord channels it was even said that PvPers don't care about outfits, so to be honest they aren't even a source of income for GF, but more than likely a loss if people get fed up with their antics and leave.


    Do I want to get rid of PKing? No...it's good to see who the rubbish are, but I would like either the option of opting out so I don't actually have to interact with the dross, or make the penalty far more severe.

  • Murr

    Changed the title of the thread from “Can Gameforge please clearly state the Intended Use of Rampage” to “Rampage (PK) Discussion”.

    Hello everyone,


    We have decided to make this thread the centralised thread for discussing the Rampage (PK) system. Any further discussions on this topic will be merged into this topic and all subsequent topics which already existed have been closed.


    Thank you

    I really do think this is a poor choice. There are many different elements to this system. This thread will be over 1,000 pages long full of flame wars. There's no way any actual feedback would be able to be found at that point. But I suppose this is how it is now.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    Quote from darknessfall77

    I really do think this is a poor choice. There are many different elements to this system. This thread will be over 1,000 pages long full of flame wars. There's no way any actual feedback would be able to be found at that point. But I suppose this is how it is now.

    There are definitely a lot of elements to the system, I agree, however all of the topics have evolved into the same conversation on the matter. We will be monitoring this thread regularly, so you do not need to worry about the suggestions being missed :)

    I'd like to quickly just state that we shouldn't make this thread a topic about us moving the topic here, therefore if you have any questions or want to pass any feedback about this decision, you can PM a Moderator or a Staff member about the topic at hand by navigating to their profile, clicking the little person icon and pressing "create conversation".


    Thank you

    As a pvp player, i cant wait until I run into a pathetically skilled rampager, then I know I got an easy kill. Maybe one shot the evil criminal lunatic and put it on youtube.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    Regarding Rampage (tl;dr): Just get rid of it. The sheer possibility of being PK'd in the open world puts a lot of players off while not adding any depth or value to the existing game systems.


    Long version:

    I played the beta extensively and not even once has someone tried or successfully PK'd me using Rampage. I didn't even come across a player who used that system. On the one hand, I was fine with that because I didnt' have to deal with any Rampagers at all. I would actually not play Swords of Legend Online if more people would make use of that system. However, if nobody really used a system that actually has game systems in place to discourage players from using it, it would probably be best to get rid of it at all. Especially because it is not beneficial to anyone:


    The system itself draws upon the sheer possibility of experiencing asymetric pvp combat, meaning that Player A (Rampager) uses the system to force Player B (who is doing anything except for pvp) into participation all the while giving Player A the advantage of the initiative. By killing Player B the system achieves two things:

    1) Punishing Player A for actually using the system how it is meant to be used and

    2) Punishing Player B for simply minding his own business and restricting him from doing any other activity except for forced PvP


    So what exactly is the motivating factor for Player A to actually use the system: The reward for player A is the exertion of a power fantasy upon Player B by force. Player A gets to decide if Player B is able to play undisturbed or not and that in itself is the sole and only reward for using Rampage as a system. It trades the freedom of an unsuspecting player for the freedom of a predatory player so he/she can choose how and when to attack anyone at any time.


    That in itself is problematic by design because a Theme Park MMOs strong points (which SOLO is) are its systems and that players can use them at their leisure at any time and to their own intensity. So the sheer possibility of being PK'd while fishing, treasure hunting, doing bounties, pp. is offputting already. And any system that keeps players from using the rest of the game to its fullest is a contradiction to what the game should actually promote in regards to player interaction.


    The most common reasoning behind keeping the system inside the game is, that severe punishments are in place for those using the system. That, however, doesn't help those who have fallen victim to any Rampagers along the way. The punishment sets in after the deed is done, which is a further detriment to use the system that doesn't really help the victim at all. And if you have to put severe punishments in place for a system that is used how it is meant to used, then it is a strong indicator that it shouldn't be in the game at all.


    Other games made the same experiences already, one of them even completely changed its course after discovering that unregulated, asymmetric pvp is only fun for the small percentage of players who kill anyone and everything until no sheep are left to be slaughtered.


    Even I, not being affected at all by the system (for now) need to ask: Why is this system in place that has no positive gain other than promoting toxic and predatory behavior (examples: See two posts above) by also potentially offputting other people? And judging by comments in various discords, comment sections and other media, one of the most common comments is actually that the Rampage system is exactly that: Offputting.

    I definitely agree with most of these points. It DOES really seem pointless to have considering the total lack of benefit for both parties, and systems like this tend to turn away a substantially greater number of players than it attracts. And also like you said, it promotes a toxic environment.

    HOWEVER; I'm personally not a fan of removing entire systems unless they are severely detrimental. Compromise would always be the best approach (such as that opt-out/immunity toggle idea), and freedom of choice is important. So it's better to add more options rather than to remove them.
    Additionally, there is the RP aspect of this PK system. AdventureApe mentioned that you can hunt down the players that killed you for rewards (via a "Nemesis" effect). I find that pretty damn cool, and I wonder why nobody has ever bothered to mention that until now...

    Quote from Uhrwerk

    The most common reasoning behind keeping the system inside the game is, that severe punishments are in place for those using the system.

    Hmm. I do want it to be known there is a less obvious reason why a system inside a game should or should not be changed.


    There are people as you have mentioned that express their displeasure with the rampage system and say they aren't buying the game or they've refunded it because of it. But there are also people in the opposite side of the camp who will probably do the same. I've seen people like them all the time. The kind who talk about "good riddances to the snowflakes who are leaving because OW PVP". The average offensive person let's say. Let's not kid ourselves here. Those people would quit just like the people they criticize if they believe the publisher is making them look stupid or they feel betrayed. There is this saying "don't go throwing stones if you live in a glass house." Well, in my opinion these proverbial stone throwers almost always live in the most fragile of glass houses of them all. And you can bet within minutes of any removal of the rampage system, you would see "I'm refunding over this" topics or posts all flooding in at once from people who defended the rampage system non-stop.


    Now, any decision you make at this point is going to bleed some consumers. Inaction loses you some customers, action loses you others. That's a given. Only one decision will get people from both sides to leave at this point though. Because the fact of the matter is many people who have been turned off by the rampage system have no guarantee of coming back at this point just because you announce change. You only get one first impression for some people. So I don't know if it's smart at this point to burn both sides.


    And I don't really know if the rampage system in this game is a meat grinding that will slowly whittle away the audience like some people think it will... I just don't see that happening.