Rampage (PK) Discussion

    I'm sorry, while i do agree with the possible social aspect that it can give. I can never accept the neanderthal-way of "Might makes right" approach.


    I rather use words, and it's just silly to get "offended" enough to attack a person. Who am I to decide what's obnoxious and what isn't? If someone says something I don't like or agree with, there are a million other things I can do before I force them to shut up with rage-mode.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    I got a bit heated earlier so I will apologize for that, and I will say that I respect your opinion and your desire to see in-game conflicts handled in a more diplomatic way. However I really don't see it as winning an argument with might.

    When you are dealing with trolls and griefers they are not going to listen to logic and they are not going to be diplomatic. They are like children, and while in an ideal world we could explain everything simply to every child who does things wrong and they just get it. That doesn't really happen, and so sometimes you just need to ground them or use your authority to make them know their behavior is bad, even if they can't understand why yet. Many people simply don't have the time or energy to always pick the diplomatic option in an MMO, we all have real lives outside of the game too and only 24 hours in a day.

    PK isn't used as a tool of reasoning, it won't win you any arguments. It is used when trying to argue with a griefer is pointless and a waste of time that could easily be solved in 1 minute by just rampaging them. You won't teach them a lesson, but you will make them aware that the game is not going to be fun for them if they are going to commit to bad behavior, and hopefully those players will then decide to try actually playing the game or just leaving. Either is a win.

    I'd like to add to this: That it's still not guaranteed that the rampager is going to always win. If a player gets their feelings hurt by someone they deemed "Obnoxious" and uses rampage to solve it, it's not a sure outcome. That "obnoxious player" could be decked out in PVP gear and completely destroy the "player who had his feelings hurt by words who went rampage for revenge" And getting beat up by the obnoxious player, will not make them feel any better.


    Are my observations that is. This is why words and brainpower will always be superior to mindless rage.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    If someone is obnoxious enough that they are worth PKing, you are probably not the only one who wants them dead. You may have noticed some common themes among my many posts, but one of the biggest ones that I try to emphasize is that this is an MMO. Make friends. If you rampage them and can't win, bring friends, if none of your friends are strong enough, pay for a bounty. This is the kind of story telling that is only possible in MMOs. And it is a feature of the game, not a bug. You can reason with other normal players and diplomatically convince them to kill the obnoxious person you can't. You might even make friends along the way. And you will develop interesting stories to bring others into the game and create even more interesting memories in the future.

    If you say so. Personally, I'm unable to find any solace/enjoyment out of killing other players. If I'm to pvp it'll be for a reason. Such as rewards or such. "Paying someone to kill another" Would be blurring a very thin lines against myself, and the very thing I'm fighting against. Also, what would be stopping the obnoxious person from paying some rampagers to kill you in return?


    It would be nice if the pve players or side of the game could be stress-free from all of that. But i suppose this is an objective point. Seeing how others may find enjoyment in using hitman tactics or trying their hardest to kill someone. But what i do know is that this rampage system will 100% be abused on launch. It's human nature to harm others.


    I guess freedom of speech goes out the window. I will have to watch what i say, and who i disagree with in world chat because little jonny sunshine will rally up the gang and take me out while I'm killing mobs. Live in fear is the message this rampage system gives on either side of the spectrum.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    I think it will be abused at launch and decline out to near nothing over the next couple weeks. If we want to talk about Human nature, its human nature that we will never really agree with everybody and that we tend to group up with like-minded individuals. Just find your group in the game and you should be insulated from most minor stuff. Get in a good alliance and they will protect you. Even if someone doesn't like what you have to say, if you are enjoyable enough to be around for some people that you can stay in an alliance/group, they will have to fight the whole group, not just you. Should be very few situations you end up totally isolated and on your own.

    But we will just have to see what numbers the devs come up with after the launch officially starts. Maybe it ends up being a much worse problem than expected. I just don't expect it to be so.

    I believe there should be an option to opt out of open world PK. Lets face it the only people who don't want that option available are the ones who want to grief and gank. There are a lot of flowery excuses, but that is all they are, and if there is a way to game the system they will find it. This game has plenty of organized PVP options with more to come. If the PK pisses too many people off and changes are not made they will leave. I doubt anyone has accurate numbers on pro PK vs no PK, but I have to think the pro is in the minority. In the end time will tell, and GF will do what they think will get/keep the most players so they make money. The first few months after launch are critical for an MMO to keep players.

    Quote from Tylor

    I believe there should be an option to opt out of open world PK. Lets face it the only people who don't want that option available are the ones who want to grief and gank. There are a lot of flowery excuses, but that is all they are, and if there is a way to game the system they will find it. This game has plenty of organized PVP options with more to come. If the PK pisses too many people off and changes are not made they will leave. I doubt anyone has accurate numbers on pro PK vs no PK, but I have to think the pro is in the minority. In the end time will tell, and GF will do what they think will get/keep the most players so they make money. The first few months after launch are critical for an MMO to keep players.

    I think this is a strawman and as a pro-pk person I will say that I do not like griefers and see the PK mechanic as an ANTI-griefing tool. However your post brings up a good point about the numbers. I feel like the forums here is a very limited (and sometimes echo-chambery) community, so I made an poll on the SOLO subreddit to see what other peoples thoughts are. Please give your vote to the poll and upvote the post so hopefully we can get a better idea on the numbers. Everyone is free and encouraged to add their opinions there.

    Quote from Xefjord
    Quote from Tylor

    I believe there should be an option to opt out of open world PK. Lets face it the only people who don't want that option available are the ones who want to grief and gank. There are a lot of flowery excuses, but that is all they are, and if there is a way to game the system they will find it. This game has plenty of organized PVP options with more to come. If the PK pisses too many people off and changes are not made they will leave. I doubt anyone has accurate numbers on pro PK vs no PK, but I have to think the pro is in the minority. In the end time will tell, and GF will do what they think will get/keep the most players so they make money. The first few months after launch are critical for an MMO to keep players.

    I think this is a strawman and as a pro-pk person I will say that I do not like griefers and see the PK mechanic as an ANTI-griefing tool. However your post brings up a good point about the numbers. I feel like the forums here is a very limited (and sometimes echo-chambery) community, so I made an poll on the SOLO subreddit to see what other peoples thoughts are. Please give your vote to the poll and upvote the post so hopefully we can get a better idea on the numbers. Everyone is free and encouraged to add their opinions there.

    Sadly, there is no option that represents my opinion :(

    Quote from Byokko
    Quote from Xefjord
    Quote from Tylor

    I believe there should be an option to opt out of open world PK. Lets face it the only people who don't want that option available are the ones who want to grief and gank. There are a lot of flowery excuses, but that is all they are, and if there is a way to game the system they will find it. This game has plenty of organized PVP options with more to come. If the PK pisses too many people off and changes are not made they will leave. I doubt anyone has accurate numbers on pro PK vs no PK, but I have to think the pro is in the minority. In the end time will tell, and GF will do what they think will get/keep the most players so they make money. The first few months after launch are critical for an MMO to keep players.

    I think this is a strawman and as a pro-pk person I will say that I do not like griefers and see the PK mechanic as an ANTI-griefing tool. However your post brings up a good point about the numbers. I feel like the forums here is a very limited (and sometimes echo-chambery) community, so I made an poll on the SOLO subreddit to see what other peoples thoughts are. Please give your vote to the poll and upvote the post so hopefully we can get a better idea on the numbers. Everyone is free and encouraged to add their opinions there.

    Sadly, there is no option that represents my opinion :(

    Post it in the comments

    The poll is nice but is missing the point. I am fine with the PK system staying in place, I just want the option to opt out of being content for other players. Some MMO's have PK and non PK servers, since that is not an option people here are asking that they can opt out. I would be fine with never doing the Rampage quest if that opted me out of being a target. There is no point in debating the pros and cons of the PK system as you have about as much chance of changing anyone's mind as you do debating religion or politics. I say to each his/her own. If you want to PK then you should only be able to do that with like minded people (those who also want to rampage) and those who don't want to do that should not have to. Forcing players to do something they do not find as fun is a sure fire way to loose players.

    Quote from Tylor

    The poll is nice but is missing the point. I am fine with the PK system staying in place, I just want the option to opt out of being content for other players. Some MMO's have PK and non PK servers, since that is not an option people here are asking that they can opt out. I would be fine with never doing the Rampage quest if that opted me out of being a target. There is no point in debating the pros and cons of the PK system as you have about as much chance of changing anyone's mind as you do debating religion or politics. I say to each his/her own. If you want to PK then you should only be able to do that with like minded people (those who also want to rampage) and those who don't want to do that should not have to. Forcing players to do something they do not find as fun is a sure fire way to loose players.

    If its opt out then it isn't really PK though. I don't know any games that have PK servers and non-PK servers, I know games that have PvP servers and non-PvP servers, but they don't have punishments or acknowledge it like PK. PK and PvP are different and as I have said in this thread and many others, they have different use cases. This game allows PK but makes clear that there is going to be punishments.

    I don't see this thread as an attempt to change anyone's mind, its more of an ongoing discussion that GameForge can reference to see the pros and cons of the PK system as well as what the userbase's preferences are.

    I want to throw my personal experiences in here . I experienced the past years a toxic obnoxious abuse of games to let persl hate out in a game envirement. One person starts to spread lies and push other player to do alike and sadly discord was a place they abused as well to disrespect privacy and spreaded whatever they wanted about me to a unbarable level of toxicy, And the people / player who did this the real obnoxious one s last in those games and what makes it even worse is u as single person have absolutly no control over it ones they take over and even had me involved into their conversations and chats and talks but talked all about me NOT with me and run with whatever someone said leaving out things and such so i want to ask those guys here who say they wants to abuse a game to get ride of obnoxious player WHO deside who is obnoxious and at what time ? In my case persl and private matters got dragged in a game envirement and the game itself and the mouth of ppl became the obnoxious weapon itself . Those ppl who thinks they have to CLEAN a game that way r obnoxious and actualy they use social networks and ppl who dont even play the games anymore just to get some in their mouth to have some to say and twist storys and all around. this toxic behaivoir of one person gathered up to become a whole group and all what bound them together was hate jealousy deney behaivoir NOT talking things OUT NOT admniting things NOT facing their own faults NOT stopping to spread lies and they actualy wants to be the player who CLEAN a game form decent player and ppl they harass and pk till they leave or moves on so they can continue under the impression they WON and r right about all the toxic moves they did.

    PLEASE punish who force toxic harassemnt up on player and 7 h jail is not hard for such behaivoir those player FORCE their oppionion and views ON other player its after all a mmo game NOT a lets kill who we hate game! If u would join every player who tells u a story about someone else who they hate and blame what is your goal to be in a game ? playing judge and god couse u actualy have ppl who help u to harass someone u persl prolly dont even know ?

    I hope GF keep word and NO forced PvP

    btw some of the ppl who did this to me played Archeage as well and the jail system there is a joke if u get the rigth ppl in there to give u an innocent its all even open doors for such toxic groups to abuse it to the higest.


    IF a liar deney truth then every angel can get blame to be a devil it just depends how many ppl the liar can convince.


    BDO have PvP server wow i heared also so ofc such exist and PvP player r absolutly having a ROOM here to play all PVP they wants BUT to use / abuse a game to PLAN to eleminate who they dislike to be in same game u better tell me u r not serious about abusing SOLO game system to get ride of PPL u hate.

    Quote from Xefjord
    Quote from Byokko
    Quote from Xefjord
    Quote from Tylor

    I believe there should be an option to opt out of open world PK. Lets face it the only people who don't want that option available are the ones who want to grief and gank. There are a lot of flowery excuses, but that is all they are, and if there is a way to game the system they will find it. This game has plenty of organized PVP options with more to come. If the PK pisses too many people off and changes are not made they will leave. I doubt anyone has accurate numbers on pro PK vs no PK, but I have to think the pro is in the minority. In the end time will tell, and GF will do what they think will get/keep the most players so they make money. The first few months after launch are critical for an MMO to keep players.

    I think this is a strawman and as a pro-pk person I will say that I do not like griefers and see the PK mechanic as an ANTI-griefing tool. However your post brings up a good point about the numbers. I feel like the forums here is a very limited (and sometimes echo-chambery) community, so I made an poll on the SOLO subreddit to see what other peoples thoughts are. Please give your vote to the poll and upvote the post so hopefully we can get a better idea on the numbers. Everyone is free and encouraged to add their opinions there.

    Sadly, there is no option that represents my opinion :(

    Post it in the comments

    Did :)

    i dont really care for pk and i have been forced pk many time sin various games, but i dont think it should be removed, why? games loose population faster that way, the punishment is as harsh as it can be without making the more fragile ego pkers give up already, and i dont think the jail system is the same as AA especially since not one person even mentioned there being a jury in the game so far so i dont think pkers can just easily get out

    Quote from Byokko

    Question:
    Why is it ok for people to FORCE other people to PvP, while the PKers are able to CHOSE to go to prison? :(

    The same reason it's okay for them to beg and whine about the restrictions being lifted or lessened, but it's NOT okay for others to beg them harsher or even more punishing. I don't understand how anyone at all in the history of (anything really) can be against having options to choose. Do Pk'ers not want people to be able to choose to opt out of it?

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    Quote from darknessfall77
    Quote from Byokko

    Question:
    Why is it ok for people to FORCE other people to PvP, while the PKers are able to CHOSE to go to prison? :(

    The same reason it's okay for them to beg and whine about the restrictions being lifted or lessened, but it's NOT okay for others to beg them harsher or even more punishing. I don't understand how anyone at all in the history of (anything really) can be against having options to choose. Do Pk'ers not want people to be able to choose to opt out of it?

    I don't think the kind of PK griefers you are thinking of particularly want to go to Prison... No one has any issues with you asking for harsher punishments. We are just disagreeing with your suggestion. We think the PK system is fine. PK is already in the game, so you need a high justification to validate removing it, and if the justification doesn't feel valid and you don't like the system, then of course people are going to tell you to play a different game. No one is silencing the anti-pk camp.

    Quote from Xefjord
    Quote from darknessfall77
    Quote from Byokko

    Question:
    Why is it ok for people to FORCE other people to PvP, while the PKers are able to CHOSE to go to prison? :(

    The same reason it's okay for them to beg and whine about the restrictions being lifted or lessened, but it's NOT okay for others to beg them harsher or even more punishing. I don't understand how anyone at all in the history of (anything really) can be against having options to choose. Do Pk'ers not want people to be able to choose to opt out of it?

    I don't think the kind of PK griefers you are thinking of particularly want to go to Prison... No one has any issues with you asking for harsher punishments. We are just disagreeing with your suggestion. We think the PK system is fine. PK is already in the game, so you need a high justification to validate removing it, and if the justification doesn't feel valid and you don't like the system, then of course people are going to tell you to play a different game. No one is silencing the anti-pk camp.

    Can I have a request for more options without getting told to "Play a different game" though? This thread is that.


    Personally, I'd like to have the option to not participate in forced PK. But Pk'ers disagree with me wanting that? They just got to have me in there? Either I participate in their fun and Never ask to have options or to be removed or play a different game?

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.