Rampage (PK) Discussion

    Why would you discuss something for so long if you dont even know the reality. The game is not even out yet and ppl complaning about an ingame feature. I am in the end everybody hows fine with the system can leave the ppl cry, because this thread wont change anything :) <3

    Quote from GodPecha

    Why would you discuss something for so long if you dont even know the reality. The game is not even out yet and ppl complaning about an ingame feature. I am in the end everybody hows fine with the system can leave the ppl cry, because this thread wont change anything :) <3

    I failed to understand ur last sentence there.

    But only because It won't change things, doesn't mean things cannot be discussed. Apparantly tho, "one side" doesn't seem to like to discuss. So the "discussing" part of this thread is kinda... bland.

    Quote from GodPecha

    Why would you discuss something for so long if you dont even know the reality. The game is not even out yet and ppl complaning about an ingame feature. I am in the end everybody hows fine with the system can leave the ppl cry, because this thread wont change anything :) <3

    Probably not. But for someone who thinks that this discussion is moot, you are very quick to jump back into this thread at any given moment and repeat yourself over and over again. I get it, your viewpoint is above everyone else. Giving an explanation on why you think that the system is beneficial to the game was probably too much to ask for anyways.


    While I also don't think that the system will get abused too much, it is still a risk. Taiwanese and Chinese gaming culture is fundamentally different than the one in Europe, though. However, as this thread will probably not change anything, the sea of carebear tears will surely will when it gets overused by certain parties. Because those that fall prey to this system are also the ones who are most likely to put a lot of money into the game.

    I considered not buying SOLO because of the non-consensual PvP, but after doing some research and playing the demo I decided to pre-order. I actually don't think it's going to be a big problem - plus, I am not going to race to max level, but instead I want to get a feel for all the classes.


    Worst case scenario - if PK becomes really annoying then I could just leave, but with many hours of enjoyable play time experienced. However, what I plan to do is make some powerful friends - I usually play in PvX games with people who enjoy PvP. So if it does become a problem, then we will "handle the matter". :evil::D

    Quote from Seven

    I considered not buying SOLO because of the non-consensual PvP, but after doing some research and playing the demo I decided to pre-order. I actually don't think it's going to be a big problem - plus, I am not going to race to max level, but instead I want to get a feel for all the classes.


    Worst case scenario - if PK becomes really annoying then I could just leave, but with many hours of enjoyable play time experienced. However, what I plan to do is make some powerful friends - I usually play in PvX games with people who enjoy PvP. So if it does become a problem, then we will "handle the matter". :evil::D

    Actually, if you played only the steam demo, then you should know that rampage mode wasn't available during. That's probably why you feel as though it wouldn't be a big deal.



    At student lvl 1 or max level, players can choose to enter rampage mode, after gaining enough evil/dark/negative qi, (i forget which one the game referred to it as) they can be sent to prison the next time they die. There are also debuffs that the game gives to the rampager to help them die quicker. The rampagers will mostly target "happy, enjoying the game, and adventuring" players. Then switch to a main character/main account to avoid doing any possible prison time.


    If choosing to do the 2nd account option, they'll have one client running (the prison one) and another one running (the main account one) They could also just simply heal the rampaging player on the 2nd account to prolong the life. It sounds complex but it's really just as easy as switching window tabs on your browser.


    I'm in zero way telling you to refund, but just making sure the entire story is present here, not just a small amount of it.

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.

    Edited once, last by darknessfall77 ().

    I wonder if a Gameforge employee can answer this, if not then so be it but:


    Do you see missed possible transactions of thousands of players worth losing vs one ridiculous feature?


    There are some people who don't read fine print before they purchase games and for this one specifically, the fine print before purchase doesn't state that you can be attacked, killed and forced to stop what your doing by a random player. (aka rampager) If your so confident about the mode then at least include it in the front page of the game details by its actual name. Not "Epic pvp encounters"


    Could you do an official gameforge poll next year and see how many people want the mode vs how many dont? With all the complaints that will happen after release, Will you hire extra staff on the support team to handle the excess complaints at that point n time and lose even more just for this feature that you can just simply tweak by giving people a button to opt-in and opt-out of?

    Someone else's opinions or how many likes I can receive will never go into consideration before I press submit to any of my posts.



    Ignorance remains forever ignored.


    :D

  • Korin

    Closed the thread.
    Quote from Madao

    Sometimes you just want to be the bad guy. Or the hero. With no pk, there's neither.


    Opting out is the same as a pve server, and the death of what we seek in a game. Hard pass /uninstall


    "Opting out is the same as a pve server" - it's wrong; there will still be PK, just only against those who opted-in. Those who can and willing to defend themselves.


    I hope the PvP will be fun here, the real PvP mode (faction, GvG, arena, and so on: the always on PvP modes), but in order to have good PvP, we need players, lots of them, so the game is alive and well.


    We don't win over any new players by PK them when they are not ready yet. Leave them alone; new players need some time to feel confident enough with their class. If the friendly and welcoming environment is missing, there won't be new blood.


    I already can't invite anyone to join me in this game, unless they don't mind PK. The punishment for PK is very high here -- but that's irrelevant for non-PvP players. All they will understand after a single PK that they aren't welcomed here.


    I tried all this in BDO, they all quit. It's very easy to scare away players new to PvP games; they don't understand that dying means nothing. It's a mind game, and they need time to change. Having safe PvE allows them to learn the game without stress, and then they can be convinced to join the PvP modes. Even if not very soon, they will be there and the game will look alive for those joining months and years later, instead being deserted and eaten by pointless PK.

    I'd rather the PK be optional as well, opt-in makes most sense. But at least if it has to stay, I am satisfied that the negative effects on the PKer are appropriately severe. It only becomes a real problem when they are free to harass all willy-nilly with no repercussions.


    I don't know if it's *** envy or some trauma enacted on them they are recreating in-game or what, but I just ignore the PKers and let them do their thing. I stand still until they kill me, and only have to fly back to the area whereas they are racking up negatives on themselves. Which is funny but also kinda sad.


    But if murdering unwilling participants is how they get their jollies, I guess all we can do is watch the rage fueled self-harm play out and move on.


    The main downside is it kind of scares off a large potential playerbase who despise forced PvP. But... them's the breaks, I doubt the entire game will change just to accommodate that perspective so guess we have to deal with it. That and continue to advocate for harsh PK penalties or at least to not let up on the current ones in place.


    The moment PK comes with no penalties, I'm out. From past experiences in those kind of MMOs I just don't have enough faith remaining in humanity to keep playing. Just becomes one giant grief fest, pointless really.




    //censored by Revali

    Hey all,

    at first: Sorry for any typing oder grammar fault, because english is not my first language.



    back to topic:

    I´ ve read many threads and discussions not only here at this Forum. And i´ m realy worried because there were only a few realy good arguments for and against PK.



    And let´ s be clear about it, i don´ t want to offend anyone! I tried my best to understand and acknowledge both sides. And i´ m completly aware that my opinion doesn´ t mean everyone has the same.



    Just to clearify it beforehand: PK is per definition PvP content.

    (Player versus Player (PvP): "Player against player", describes a mode in multiplayer computer games that enables two or more players or groups of players to fight against each other.) The keyword is here "enable, meaning: make possible", because the possibility exists.



    Ok then let´ s beginn with the pro-PK-arguments:


    Story/setting/lore-wise: If this feature fits in - yes, completely right.

    There are Consequences: If this Feature comes along with punishments - yes, of cause. If someone does something harmfull to others, they should also take the consequences. And those should also be severe enough to give them a lesson or at least they think twice before they do it (again).

    "There wont be so much PK in future!": ähm .... i really want to have this futuretelling ability! I´ m sorry, but this is not an argument whether for or against something. We all don´ t know what will happens in the future. And if so, there would be no lottery or stock markets.;)

    "I want to reserve a farming or resource spot.": Is it necessary to kill someone over this? Yeah i know it can be tiresome or frustrating to wait or gather something till you get what you want and there comes someone other while you answer the natures calling. But imagine looking for a parking lot and while your third round, someone catches one. No one would get out to cut off the other´ s head.

    Someone is bullying and harasing a friend/guildmember: Bulliyng and harassment is never a good thing!! And shouldn´ t be tolerated anywhere. Just seek help from an official side. PK is a feature what could be used in both directions.



    So let´ s continue with the contra-PK-arguments.


    It forces PvP on someone who don´ t want it.: Yes it does. Period.(See definition above)

    PK supports Griefers.: Yes. But those people will find their way, with or without PK.

    It supports bullying/harassment.: Yes, but it could be used in both directions. But again, as stated befor: Bulliyng and harassment is never a good thing!! And shouldn´ t be tolerated anywhere. Even a tool that makes it possible.

    Theres a difference between westerners and asian behavior/playstyle.: uhm, realy? I couldn´ t find a solid source for that statement. Maybe there is, maybe not.

    I don´ t want to be stressed and look over my shoulder every time i do some stuff and want to relax.: Yes, that´ s totally understandable. Who wants that?



    For those comments like: "If you don´ t like it, then play another game." or "Learn to play."or "Call your friends/guildmembers for help.", "Because i can/ want it!".



    For the first one, i just want to put in an example: Imagine there is a mostly PvP-Game, with only a few areas where you do PvE-Stuff. And you like this game, the setting/story/combat system and so on, but there is only a minor feature that you don´ t like.

    So you are in the middle of a thrilling battle, and out of nowhere you are blocked by an NPC who gives you the order to fish/gather/kill something/minigame (put there any PvE-Stuff that comes to your mind) and you need a special gear for it to pass it. And if you can´ t you have to start all over again. (Yeah of course, there wouldn´ t be any kind of this, but it´ s only to compare the situation). That would be annoying, to be interrupted, wouldn´ t it? Is this a reason to quit? No answer needed, just answer it for yourself :saint:



    The others are answered by counter questions : WHY should i change my personal playstyle, because off a different opinion from a complete stranger? Isn´ t that very selfish? Whats with the seniors? They may not have the ability and the responsiveness to counter a surprise attak. Or what´ s with (temporarily) handicapped people? Whats with those, who don´´ t have the technical equipment? What´s with those who have only limited time because of work or familiy matters?

    And that "because i can"... uff, i hear the same from 4yr old kids when they snatch candy from others.



    To come to a conclusion:

    In my humple opinion, i agree that the feature should be toggleable. One of the mainreason is the "force upon someone". For those who like it and for those who don´ t mind, here they go. But please give at least the possiblity for those, who doesn´ t want it. In that case everyone get´ s a win-win. Don´ t you think?



    The other crucial mainreason is, i don´ t think any tool/feature that can be used to harm(bully)/annoy/disturb others should be present in an social activity like mmo´ s where people spent their freetime. A knife is only a kitchen tool, till someone is stabbed with it.

    Just a kindly reminder: Every interaction ONLINE, be it through games, chat or whatever, have an impact an the other person behind the screen. In a good or bad way.



    Thanks for reading that wall of text!

    So please stay healthy and let´ s have a good time in SoLO

    Isira

    Ab einem gewissen Alter ist es schon ein Hochgefühl,

    in einen Raum zu gehen und dann noch immer zu wissen,

    was man dort überhaupt wollte!!

    ;)

    Im so tired reading this over and over again, people crying about PK.

    - You cant kill everyone, only max lvl players.
    - The punishment of PK, is way too hard. I also tested it, 1 kill = 5 hours Jail Time, no afk, you gotta quest yourself out.
    - i heard killing 3 people gives you 18 hours, just imagine it. Do you really think, someone wants to quest for 18 hours just for 2-3min fun time?
    - even if they could kill more people than 3 , just imagine how much time he gotta waste to get out.

    Even hardcore PK players wont use this feature. So dont worry my beloved PvE players, you dont need to be scared lmao.

    I mean Tera PK was terrible , but cmon, Solo PK? thats nothing.


    And btw
    I really hate this kind of PvE players, who wants to force so badly the game to be 100% PvE, just cause they dont like PvP.
    Also must have a reason that you got only 20 Likes, instead of 100+.

    Anyways have a nice day!

    10/10

    Quote from Ryuuz01

    I really hate this kind of PvE players, who wants to force so badly the game to be 100% PvE, just cause they dont like PvP.
    Also must have a reason that you got only 20 Likes, instead of 100+.

    Anyways have a nice day!

    Its not like people arguing about this system are demanding that Solo has no pvp whatsoever. Nobody complains about Arena, Battlegrounds, Faction Wars, pp. I'd actually look forward to those. It just that one system that admittedly serves no real purpose, but still gets defended by a few people. And whenever someone like Isira comes up with a posting that isn't even offensive in the slightest, you can be sure that those in favor of the system are there to belittle those against Rampage without really contributing to the discussion in the slightest.

    Quote from Isira

    The keyword is here "enable, meaning: make possible", because the possibility exists.

    Yeah, except in this game you cannot fight back, you only pretend to fight back.


    Why? Because the PK will be wearing PvP gear because they know they are about to attack an unsuspecting, unprepared player. The player being attacked will be in PvE gear, because PvP gear is literally only useful in PvP.


    A player wearing PvP gear will always beat a player in PvE gear. Just like a player in PvE gear will always outdamage a player in PvP gear on a dungeon or raid dps report. The two armor sets only function properly in the type of content they were designed for. You cannot change equipment when you are in combat. That means the player getting surprise attacked cannot equip their PvP armor set to have any chance of defending themselves.


    So while "technically" it is combat between 2 or more players, they player in PvE gear cannot do or take damage in any repectable manner that would allow for any type of combat other than total domination.

    Yeah i thought about the "fairness" too, but decided not to include that in my post. But you are right. For my understanding fairness is when opponents have the same requirements from the start. And in case of a PK-System it´ s mostly not given.


    Thanks for pointing that out.

    Isira

    Ab einem gewissen Alter ist es schon ein Hochgefühl,

    in einen Raum zu gehen und dann noch immer zu wissen,

    was man dort überhaupt wollte!!

    ;)

    Quote from Isira

    The other crucial mainreason is, i don´ t think any tool/feature that can be used to harm(bully)/annoy/disturb others should be present in an social activity like mmo´ s where people spent their freetime.

    Remove all non friend/party chat channels and the open world zones then. Also hubs. Make the multiplayer part only instanced with no random matchmaking (only the other side in pvp matches) and all story, farming etc single player/instanced.
    All of these things can and will be used to bully/annoy/disturb others. Most of them even more than PK as there is no direct punishment for using those.


    I played a lot of MMOs that had some form of open world PK system or Faction PvP you can't opt out and there was always more griefing/bullying by non-PK interactions than by PK.
    Also PK in SOLO does harm you less than most other forms of griefing as it can't be done over and over and the effect on the one getting killed is very small.


    If your healer refuses to heal or tank doesn't tank in a dungeon, you loose way more time and resources.

    If some players tag every mob at your farming spot so you can't get drops they can waste much more of your time than by killing you once or twice.


    I don't care much about PK. Like most people I don't like if I get PKed but I also don't mind it being part of a game.

    I also don't like removing features form a game just because some players don't like that feature. All things in a game are part of a package and affect each other. Just "turn it off" is rarely a solution as it will affect other parts of the game as well.

    Making PK opt-out will just mean only players who don't know about the option (newbies) will be PKed.
    Making it opt-in will be the same as removing it entirely.

    As I said a while ago, if you opt out of PK, please also opt out of all other open world pvp like farming mobs for loot and gathering. This will also prevent bots from opting out.

    We have merged the topic "Please make the PK system optional for western release" into the main Rampage (PK) discussion thread.


    This thread will be reopened at the weekend once players have started to reach max level and have more experience with the system.

    Quote from Slyce

    This will also prevent bots from opting out.

    PK vs bots is not a solution anyway: the bot will just respawn, it's not like one can hurt their feelings.


    Optional doesn't mean removing a feature: just removing it from those who anyway won't use it ever.

    The alternative is to have less players. But maybe this game will attract those players later, when they see what happens here to the PK.


    But it is as it is already. Suggesting ways to improve the game is fine, and the devs have to be smart not to accept bad suggestions and make their game better, not worse.


    PK in this game is a trap: it's severely restricted and can be safely ignored, so it's a good game for those who are afraid of PK; even if you get killed this way, you can be sure that the killer lost more than you, way more. So don't be afraid. Just relax. Nothing bad happens to you. It's actually a game where those nice PK lovers get what they deserve: so join and enjoy the show.