Posts by Zagann

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Quote from Byokko

And can you explaing what is fun about forcing other people to do something they don't want to do?


(Also, I know jail systems that are used for players that ger reported (for x behaviour etc), so there is also that possibilty for example.)

I mean in Age of Wushu I was kidnapping logged out players. It was called getting PKed when one would get killed for kidnapping, but it was a choice to partake in that and I was not forced into a situation without choice. but my memory might be blury~ hmh

Then let me suggest: PvP players to have no choice to.. let's say, work as a slave for a PKed person as punishment for an hour.
Or they have no choice that everytime they die, they lose a character level while in Rampage mode?

Or they have no choice... but to do a 1h long jumping puzzle. Or they have no choice but to not get any PvE loot/rewards for 8h?

Just some suggestions to force - potentially undesired - content on them? x:

So far, no PKer answered my question above (earlier post) yet #sadme

<-- just airing my thoughts~

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You carebears have 1000s of pve games, stop trying to ruing the .0001% that actually have an open world.

Imagine EVE without its open PVP. It wouldn't be EVE. Imagine L2.. no one would think it was the greatest game ever if not for its open pvp, on the contrary, it would have been a trash game made of lead in a sea of pve junk

PKK can't exist without PK, and imo it should be rewarding like it sometimes was in PW/FW/L2. bound gear that can't drop really ruins it.

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So in short, you are also unable to answer my question, and instead opt for name calling :3

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I did more or less answer you, but let me quote my angsty friend

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i can't post on there i'd get too mad and not play

but if they remove pk i wont play either so

MMOs are supposed to be about the world it's set in etc. Not being able to PK just makes the game feel horribly closed off

Nothing more sh***y than having limits in an mmo

'no, sorry you're not allowed to do that'

You should be able to do anything within reason

I think that's why I cna't get in to games any more

once you've had a taste of real mmos everything else feels so fake

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For me personally I like to PKK in games where they can drop gear or lose days of grind or have to buy a blessed res. If I'm bored I'll sometimes pk, but there is always people who show up.

MMOs are about interaction, it's f***ing boring when it feels like you're a million miles away, I don't understand why everyone wants a carebear fest. Yes getting stunned and dying to mobs or whatever sucks but deal with it, get a friend! Log out, ask for help, something. Everyone wants SOLO "mmos" these days...

Getting more powerful is incentive to grind, but you don't really get that in PVE games. I don't care about structured pvp. I want open sieges and PK. There hasn't been any games like this in nearly a decade.

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Very well said, and I've also said this before. If you don't like pvp, just go play a pve only game, don't try to go change a game's pvp when you aren't even interested in it.

Quote from Byokko

Quote from Zagann

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Quote from Xefjord

I made another post in a related thread that I think is relevant here, so I will repost it.

The PK system (and its potential for harassment) is both a good and strong incentive to actually join alliances and make friends in the game. And that in itself is a good thing.

If you are wanting to play through the end game entirely solo, and then getting ganked by PKer's who are seeking to grief, you have all the ability to set out and find people to help you. If you are suffering alone, it is because you are not taking advantage of the MMO aspect of the MMORPG genre, and that is making friends and accomplishing tasks greater than oneself in an interesting new world.

If you managed to get to max level, are getting ganked, and all your efforts to find people to help you are resulting in nothing, I would go so far as to wonder...

What have you been doing this entire game socially and how have you been interacting with other players? If no one wants to help you even when someone is causing problems in the community, your situation may not be entirely the griefers fault. And the PK system is incredibly good not only for griefers, but for people who are being obnoxious and that you want out of the community in general. The system may be working as intended to enable the community to try to cause trouble for the people that are not making the game fun.

Not saying that is majority of cases, or even less. But I think there is a problem with how players are playing the game if this system leads to so much personal distress unrelated to the actual mechanics.

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Just wanting to mention, that there may be people who simple Do.Not.Want.to PK back. No matter how many friends they have, or even if half the server is on their side.
so "pk back" is not really an argument for a non-pk person~
it just drags them in a pk spiral they don't want to be part of to begin with.

Your talking about "get your friends" etc. But this is exactly where I roll my eyes.

"I get my big brother" "then ill get my friend" "wait until my guildmates are online" "let's see if ur guildmates can kill the whole league"... kind of thing.. uhi.<-- possible scenario

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Then don't play a game with open world pvp. Simple as that.

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Why would I give up everythihng else just because of PK ? ôo
In neither direction PK is important to me.

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Do you care about pvp? I'm talking about the people that don't like pvp and complain about being able to get pked. If they don't like it and want it changed then go play another game that is fully PVE or whatever. Don't come to a game and suggest to remove things just because they don't want to pvp.

Quote from Byokko

Quote from Xefjord

I made another post in a related thread that I think is relevant here, so I will repost it.

The PK system (and its potential for harassment) is both a good and strong incentive to actually join alliances and make friends in the game. And that in itself is a good thing.

If you are wanting to play through the end game entirely solo, and then getting ganked by PKer's who are seeking to grief, you have all the ability to set out and find people to help you. If you are suffering alone, it is because you are not taking advantage of the MMO aspect of the MMORPG genre, and that is making friends and accomplishing tasks greater than oneself in an interesting new world.

If you managed to get to max level, are getting ganked, and all your efforts to find people to help you are resulting in nothing, I would go so far as to wonder...

What have you been doing this entire game socially and how have you been interacting with other players? If no one wants to help you even when someone is causing problems in the community, your situation may not be entirely the griefers fault. And the PK system is incredibly good not only for griefers, but for people who are being obnoxious and that you want out of the community in general. The system may be working as intended to enable the community to try to cause trouble for the people that are not making the game fun.

Not saying that is majority of cases, or even less. But I think there is a problem with how players are playing the game if this system leads to so much personal distress unrelated to the actual mechanics.

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Just wanting to mention, that there may be people who simple Do.Not.Want.to PK back. No matter how many friends they have, or even if half the server is on their side.
so "pk back" is not really an argument for a non-pk person~
it just drags them in a pk spiral they don't want to be part of to begin with.

Your talking about "get your friends" etc. But this is exactly where I roll my eyes.

"I get my big brother" "then ill get my friend" "wait until my guildmates are online" "let's see if ur guildmates can kill the whole league"... kind of thing.. uhi.<-- possible scenario

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Then don't play a game with open world pvp. Simple as that.

Quote from Xefjord

I made another post in a related thread that I think is relevant here, so I will repost it.

The PK system (and its potential for harassment) is both a good and strong incentive to actually join alliances and make friends in the game. And that in itself is a good thing.

If you are wanting to play through the end game entirely solo, and then getting ganked by PKer's who are seeking to grief, you have all the ability to set out and find people to help you. If you are suffering alone, it is because you are not taking advantage of the MMO aspect of the MMORPG genre, and that is making friends and accomplishing tasks greater than oneself in an interesting new world.

If you managed to get to max level, are getting ganked, and all your efforts to find people to help you are resulting in nothing, I would go so far as to wonder...

What have you been doing this entire game socially and how have you been interacting with other players? If no one wants to help you even when someone is causing problems in the community, your situation may not be entirely the griefers fault. And the PK system is incredibly good not only for griefers, but for people who are being obnoxious and that you want out of the community in general. The system may be working as intended to enable the community to try to cause trouble for the people that are not making the game fun.

Not saying that is majority of cases, or even less. But I think there is a problem with how players are playing the game if this system leads to so much personal distress unrelated to the actual mechanics.

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I agree with most of this. But I do disagree on the way you use "may be" when talking about the system working or not. People complaining about open world pvp have no place to complain and try to remove or fix it because they don't partake in it at all. If you're going to play an MMO I suggest you do your research and if you don't like a pvp aspect of it because you aren't into pvp, STAY AWAY FROM IT. It's that easy... It is selfish and no offense but extremely dumb to try and change a game to your standards just because you don't pvp or are bad at it.

Quote from Byokko

Quote from nadii95

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Quote from Leyaa

Quote from Byokko

You get to chose to revive or go to Prison.

At least I could revive how ever many times I wanted~ no problem

So, I could potentially avoid prison as long as I choose to revive instead of going to prison? Or is there some harsh penalties when you revive instead of prison?

yes (ofc you will be capped at 150 qi and the lightning will deal about 50% dmg per hit so you would prolly need a healer, or take off your EQ to go somewhere, as the repair cost is high XD)
But yes, you can chose to revive on the spot and annoy people, buzzung around like a fly that can't do much but won't go away

So what do you think about the system? Some adjustments, here some changes there, but overall it should be alright right?

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Naw. That's compromising.

I still find no logical (not emotional!) use for a system that allows others to force into PvP and litterly just seems a way to bully people for ones own amusement/e-peen enlarging.

tho - the one reason there is, I doubt many do it for that: Killing for ressources. (at least from all thos pro OWPVP posts i read so far). everyone at most said "i just like it" "I want to kill whenever whoever". if they ever gave a reason and not just said "Just go play something else" or something along the lines.

Also no use for it when it's about "open world killing players" for there is the faction toggle system.

(tho im not saying that one doesnt get forced to do things in other aspects of the game)

Also in the end, there still needs to be an "outcry" for that little "tweaking here and there", or else it would be left as is.

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The reason you don't understand it is because you don't pvp enough and/or haven't played open world pvp games. But having the freedom to attack for example someone of an "enemy" guild in the open if you find them, or a person you have beef with, or even just a friend to scare them messing around. This are some of the reasons open world pking/pvp is fun, and being restricted to things in an open world game where you should feel free to do such things just takes a lot of the fun out of it.
Even if there's faction, there could still be friction between players of the same faction which still makes pking a fun and wanted go to option.

Rampage system should be less harsh, or stay as it is. It's already very punishing to turn PK on in this game. Also there are many safe zones like the main cities, or cloudrise if you don't want to find pvp, you can also buy a house and do dungeons safely from pvp. The fun part of open world is to enjoy whatever it has, and freedom. Attempting to remove something from a game just because YOU don't like is not how things work, that's why there are many games out there with no pvp at all that you can play, if this game needs anything is people that want to make it better, not worse, because it's already an amazing game.

Quote from Xefjord

I like the PK system, I vote to keep. I think it is punishing enough

I agree, it's way too punishing already for who ever tries to PK. It just feels like these carebears don't understand how harsh it is so they just start whining at the first sight of pvp. Idk why they don't stay in a PVE only game, go play roblox or something.

Quote from Leyaa

Quote from AdventureApe

it took me 3 kills to get to 150 bad qi, and my char is in prison now for 19 hours.

Can you elaborate how this works? How and when are you sent to prison when you attacked someone? Until now, I assumed that you get sent to prison immediately after attacking a non-flagged player. Do you actually need to be close to a city or an outpost to get sent to prison?

Quote from Zagann

If people don't like open world pvp, then they should go play a PVE game

This game was never advertised to be specifically PvP centric. Rather, it caters to both, PvP and PvE. Yes, there are lots of PvP modes, like battlegrounds, faction PvP, duelling, etc. But there is an equal amount of PvE in the game in the form of story quests, dungeons, raids, housing, etc.

Quote from darknessfall77

Since on the topic of criminals, what's too much for a criminal? If they break the law in-game what's stopping the criminal from hacking/ddos attacks, harassment

I think we need to differentiate real world crimes from ingame crime. People may use ingame means to play "bad/criminal" because they normally would never break the law. That's part of the roleplay aspect when playing a game. It may simply bring people enjoyment to act all badass, because in real life they suffer heavy consequences, negatively impacting their life.

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Not sure why you keep saying that this game wasn't "advertised" to have open world pvp or whatever when this game has been out for years and if you do your research you clearly see the kind of pvp there is. This is a great game, there's no p2w, there is a healthy amount of things to do in every way. You're trying to complain about a feature you don't even want to use when a majority of people enjoy it.

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Don't ruin a fun experience? What exactly is "fun" about killing players who have no wish to participate? Your "fun" must come only from causing grief to other players?

Gameforge said world PvP wasn't forced, but that's not a true statement. Adjusting Rampage so you can only attack other players with Rampage doesn't prevent you from PvPing in the open world. It just means you can't be a dick to people who don't want to be attacked.

Quote from Naunet

Don't ruin a fun experience? What exactly is "fun" about killing players who have no wish to participate? Your "fun" must come only from causing grief to other players?

Gameforge said world PvP wasn't forced, but that's not a true statement. Adjusting Rampage so you can only attack other players with Rampage doesn't prevent you from PvPing in the open world. It just means you can't be a dick to people who don't want to be attacked.

You're really crazy, Pk does not exist if two players have to activate, when you do pvp then that means that you accept to be killed, then the prison and the sentences would not make sense anymore. ..you know nothing about mmorpg, your experience must stop at FF14 in my opinion ..

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LOL well that's hilarious, and you clearly know nothing about me.

Answer this question: What is fun to you about killing players who have no wish to fight back or participate? In a truly opt-in situation, you guarantee that the players you're fighting are willing and eager to fight back, which theoretically should be more fun for you.

And again, Gameforge presented PvP in this game as NOT forced, so... false advertising?

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Gameforge has never lied, they announce things as they go, they never said that the pk does not exist in the game, it's you who says that, The pk is a really welcome addition as it also adds game design elements like nemesis system and karma luck/bad, if you don't agree, quit the game. Chinese version still has had pk and no one is complaining except you and a few pve players.

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Still can't answer the question, huh?

What exactly is fun to you about killing players who don't want to fight back/participate?

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The fun is being able to be free to attack other players if you wanted to. It's not about having fun killing/attacking players who don't want to participate. If you don't want to participate in PVP, there are PVE games or areas you can play in. You not accepting there's a possibility of getting attacked by other players isn't anyone's issue but your own.

Quote from Naunet

Quote from Zagann

If people don't like open world pvp, then they should go play a PVE game. It's annoying to complain and try to remove a mechanic from a game when you aren't interested in it. You aren't "forced" to pvp, you can just run away if someone happens to randomly pick you as a target out of 1000s of people playing in the open world. And this is a multiplayer game, if someone tries to kill you, just ask for help if you really are that bad at pvp or at getting away.
You already don't lose anything when you die.

If you don't want to learn a mechanic that is in the game just because you only want to play against AI, you should really go play another game that has no PVP mechanics, don't ruin a fun experience taking the freedom that is open world pvp just because you don't like it.

Don't ruin a fun experience? What exactly is "fun" about killing players who have no wish to participate? Your "fun" must come only from causing grief to other players?

Gameforge said world PvP wasn't forced, but that's not a true statement. Adjusting Rampage so you can only attack other players with Rampage doesn't prevent you from PvPing in the open world. It just means you can't be a dick to people who don't want to be attacked.

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You need to learn the meaning of griefing, because you clearly are over exaggerating. Open world pvp can be used in many ways, just because you get PKed doesn't mean it's automatically grief. Why do you come to such a great game and try to change it to your standards just because you don't like PVP? How would you like it if people started complaining about hard modes being too hard and asked for them to be dumbed down?

Quote from darknessfall77

Rampage players can only attack other rampage players. Do this and remove all punishments and find another use for the prison system elsewhere.

This way, Nobody has a reason to complain. Because if they got killed then it's their own fault for entering rampage mode. Plus this wouldn't stop the Pk'ers from having their fun. They'd be able to pk freely without worry of in-game punishments.

It will still be open-world PK because you'd have to worry about the other rampage players, you would also have significantly more time to PK as well. Would anyone agree with this? If not then why so? If the devs are willing to adjust the game by "English voices" to the NA/EU release then why not switch this feature as well?

Or do you want the option/opportunity to attack and kill players in pve content/pve gear to remain? The prison system to reduce your PK and active game time to remain?

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I think the solution would be to make a PVE server so all the carebears can play in their own realm with no PVP. Because removing PVP mechanics from a game just because you don't enjoy them isn't fair for those that do. Go play another game if you are that scared of getting attacked by another player when you lose NOTHING from dying.

The PK punishments are even harsh enough for people to not gain much from it anyway so why try to smash it even more? How would you like it if someone that isn't much interested in PVE said, "Please make hard dungeons easier, they are too hard and annoying to deal with"?

If people don't like open world pvp, then they should go play a PVE game. It's annoying to complain and try to remove a mechanic from a game when you aren't interested in it. You aren't "forced" to pvp, you can just run away if someone happens to randomly pick you as a target out of 1000s of people playing in the open world. And this is a multiplayer game, if someone tries to kill you, just ask for help if you really are that bad at pvp or at getting away.
You already don't lose anything when you die.

If you don't want to learn a mechanic that is in the game just because you only want to play against AI, you should really go play another game that has no PVP mechanics, don't ruin a fun experience taking the freedom that is open world pvp just because you don't like it.