Posts by Xefjord

    Did you just quote phantasy star online as a PvP game?... lol

    I mean in the end, its just a demo. Of course you don't get the whole game to play. Thats not the purpose of demos.

    As Phaendar already said here:

    Why is this happening, I already tried the game?

    - To potentially attract some new people, as well as give people without beta keys the chance to see whether the game runs for them, whether it could be something to check out, yadda yadda.

    Its exactly that, for new players who haven't already tried the game and wanna get a first look into it and maybe check out if it even runs on their PC. For everything else, endgame wise you need to buy the game of course. Or watch some Streams (GF is gonna make one tomorrow and even showing the endgame activites a bit).

    In the end, its a Demo and it is exactly that, a Demo.

    Yes, and I said it was reasonable, just ironic because I made a post about how the level 1-15 experience is terrible and this is ironically what is being used to promote the game lol

    I don't know where else to discuss it, but this is tangentially related to the SOLO Steam Fest,

    The fact they are doing just up to level 15 makes sense, but in my opinion showcases literally the worst part of the game, I made a whole post on the feedback and suggestions on how all the content up to level 15 is pretty bad and doesn't give a good indication of how the rest of the game will be played. So I can see a lot of people playing to 15, not being able to progress further, then saying something like... That was it? That was pretty meh.

    But oh well.

    Maybe add Mahjong as well. Also a bit to be expected in this setting.

    Not a bad idea indeed, having some typical Chinese games to play at your house. Just for the fun of it.

    Mahjong is too recent of a game. It was developed in the 19th century.

    Weiqi is ancient and already exists in game lore as you can get Weiqi boards for your home. Mahjong would be cool, but wouldn't really fit and I think is a bit too complicated. Weiqi is fairly simple

    The current system is 100% fine the way it is. The game is very middle ground in catering to both sides.

    • If you're for PK: actions have consequences. Yes you can PK, but you'll be punished for it. It's a fact, so accept it. Is it extreme? Maybe, but all the more reason for you to re-consider whether you'll bear the consequence before you PK someone. There is an open world faction vs faction in place already.
    • If you're against PK: you're not technically forced to PvP--you could run. Ultimately every player is given the choice and freedom to PK others, and it's not "your playground, your rules," and you'll have to accept it as is or just not play/venture outside.

    Even bored players wouldn't consider PK as first go-to, since spending that time doing other leisure activities in the game and not falling behind rankings is more important than spending 7 hours in jail for no reason. There's zero problems with this unless you're either a hardcore PK nut or an overly sensitive PvE-only nut.

    It simulates real-world scenario perfectly: there's no systematical way to prevent others from physically attacking or killing you; but there are laws in place to punish would-be and convicted murderers.

    This is the most sensible explanation and you can leave it at that, no need to respond to anyone else otherwise you will get dragged into the muck, most people here are just talking in circles and name calling people at this point anyway. Guy above me tried to drag you in, don't take the bait. Chillax and enjoy the wait for release with the rest of us. Gameforge won't be changing these features anytime soon after release if they ever do at all.

    I made a poll, you can find it here.

    Go... Was pleasantly surprised I had to play some. I like this suggestion.

    However, playing a standard 19x19 board might be a bit too time consuming for most players. 9x9 timer based is probably the better solution. Takes you a bit of time to get your ahead around this game, especially because every move matters and is permanent. Might be a bit much for the average mmo player to deal with. Though simple in it's concept, it is a bit of a brain teaser...

    On the other hand, if the game offers the chance to play it, I would surely be tempted easily.

    I agree that a 9x9 board with a timer is the best choice. Otherwise games might last too long. Go can be an all day adventure. But it fits the setting perfectly (I mean they already have them as objects in the game). So if the devs find it interesting too, why not?

    PK = Killing people who don't want anything to do with Pvp, forcing them into a pvp situation? <- its this one, and its why all the games (that are not explicitly open world PvP all the time) with a PK system also have a prison/jail system. The other ones (while sometimes crappy) are not stuff that would normally land you in in-game jail.

    It isn't basically the same, there is no set definition for PvP and PK (Beyond what the acronyms expand into) but it seems like you are most definitely interpreting the meaning of PK to fit your own biases, not how they are most commonly used or intended for.

    This is going to sound like a silly suggestion, but I remembered seeing in the Housing trailer for SOLO a Weiqi (Go) board with two players hovering over it. While I am sure it is just meant to look aesthetically nice, as every good chinese scholar should have a Weiqi board, if there was an actual Weiqi minigame to pass the time between the other main SOLO content, I would literally never log off.

    I mean think about it, we already have a card game minigame built into our main game, and while I do like me some card games, I love Weiqi even more. I would love to sit down with my friends in my house and be able to actually play Weiqi with them, or to have boards sitting out in the open world and you can play with strangers, and perhaps you could get some titles, pet skins, or cosmetics from reaching how ranks in it. But even if no benefits were added whatsoever, I would spend significantly more time in SOLO just chit chatting on world chat while I played Weiqi if that were an option.

    I just answered that in the above post, if you can opt out of PK then any open world fighting is just PvP because you are assumed opt in. The nature of PK is that you can't opt out. Its not a PK otherwise. So you are just asking for removal of the PK system.

    My biggest issue with Swords of Legends Online (and why you should still try it)

    Heyo everyone, I am bored after the ending of Closed Beta 2 and wanted to give my thoughts as someone who greatly enjoyed SOLO but whose friends largely didn't. I feel like I keep seeing all these hype posts or shit posts that just rehash the same old stats and overview mechanics of the game, but I wanted to hit on the issue that I think is most strongly holding it back.

    Swords of Legends Online is constantly referred to as an average game, but it's mechanics and features are often compared in the same sentence to being clones of WoW, FFXIV, BDO, Archeage, etc. All games that were essentially top class MMORPG's. It mixes many of these features and doesn't do much substantially innovative, but it polishes them and provides a new medium to experience them in that doesn't suffer from the aging and bitter pitfalls of these other MMOs. There is no pay to win (And after 3 years in China it still never got implemented) and the holy trinity is well preserved and social aspects still vibrant. This isn't an average game just because the mechanics have been seen before, its actually a great game with an amazing end-game the likes of many MMORPG fans have been yearning for. And the no P2W is just icing on the cake.

    So why did none of my friends like it?

    Level 1 to 15 kinda sucks hard. And not in that it is a slog or anything. Just that it babies you FAR too much, and the setting starts with the weirdest aspects of its story.

    Issue 1

    The game is highly inspired by Chinese mythology, and is technically a part of a genre called Xianxia, which is like their equivalent of high fantasy. That may sound cool on the surface, but most normal people don't understand much about Xianxia or or how Chinese mythology is displayed in modern Chinese culture (like Cdramas and such). Xianxia is weird. You are thrown into the world of immortals and deeply chinese ideas and characteristics, but this isn't like a JRPG where everything feels exotic and familiar, everything just feels exotic, strange, and weird if you are already not a huge fan of Chinese culture.

    You start out in a world inhabited almost entirely by immortals and their weird personalities and stories, you get introduced to a lot of characters in the typical chinese fashion that you won't remember or realize are important for another 30 levels or so, and it is overwhelming and strange. But after level 15 you start to spend more time in the human world and start encountering more normal stories. And it eases you into the more fantastical elements of Chinese culture more gradually. But by then most of my friends have already decided to stop playing.

    Editors note (not from the reddit post): I don't think Issue 1 is a problem for GameForge or the developers to fix, I think it is just the community needs to help promote the game and over time Chinese cultural content will become more familiar and normalized to other people kind of like how Japanese gaming content has become normalized and familiar. I already know many people previously unaware and uninterested in Chinese things looking into them more after playing SOLO, and after getting further in the game I think people can even appreciate the story at the start more after they become more comfortable with the setting.

    Issue 2

    You are a one man army at level 1, and will remain that way all the way until around level 15. Nothing you fight will be challenging, you can stand in all the orange/red squares and circles and not take hardly any damage, you can aggro every single mob in the entire zone and barely drop below 90% health, and then you button mash two buttons and kill everything. The zones feel super instanced and thin and snakey, you get no sense of a wide open world and it feels like you can ignore all mechanics and story and you are playing some mindless dungeon crawler where nothing challenges you.

    It sucks, and the first dungeon at level 13 is also a faceroll. Me and some friends pulled almost the entire dungeons worth of mobs and didn't drop below half health even once. So when this is the first impression people have of the game after 2 hours or so of playing. Yeah it feels awfully dang generic and sucky.

    Editors Note 2: I think increasing the difficulty of the first 15 levels (Well, everything before Zhongnan) to be more on par with the difficulty set in Zhongnan is one solution, but I also understand it would be slowing down leveling during a time when the unfamiliar story just feels like a slog for most players and class complexity isn't very interesting yet. My alternative solution is to raise the difficulty of the first dungeon (Done around level 13ish) to make it more challenging. I know the devs wanted people to be able to solo these dungeons. But it gives an entirely wrong impression as to the difficulty of the game, and made many of my friends think you could just ignore mechanics so the game wasn't worth playing. Don't give players the 2 helpers that spawn in if they are going in with a premade group either.

    I couldn't solo Dungeon 2 as a zerker, but I heard other people could with more kitey classes. It may not hurt to raise the difficulty of that one as well. I will also say that if at any point you can fight a mob with an ability that creates an orange circle/rectangle, and you can stand in that danger zone and take less than 25% of your health in damage, its too easy. The danger markers are pointless if there is no real danger. There was multiple times where I just ate the orange because it did virtually no damage anyway.

    Why you should keep playing

    After level 15, you start to enter a zone called Zhongnan Foothills, it is a significantly more expansive zone that I already felt like was a massive improvement on the others. And later returned to it at a higher level as the main questline brings you back only to realize it was even bigger and grander than I initially expected. Here you will start to see the difficulty scale up and you can't just one man army mobs anymore, and some bosses start to do enough damage to make you pay attention. The story grounds itself back to earth and you are interacting far more with normal people than the weird heavenly realm of the immortals, and I started actually reading story text again and getting immersed in the world.

    And that is just the beginning. The difficult scales up significantly with each new zone and dungeons start to feel actually challenging, I could not solo the second dungeon, and the third dungeon was significantly harder. Classes start to have a lot of abilities and mechanics you need to remember, and if you don't do them correctly then the fight will take a long time, which is actually quite meaningful because you tend to get stacked debuffs that do exponentially more damage the longer the fight goes on. So while you might 4 shot someone if you know your rotation, if you don't learn it properly you might start to see the boss hitting you for a third of your health each shot because you took too long to end the fight.

    By level 30 I was feeling immensely satisfied, and I have heard almost universally that the end game is very good, but as I said, most of my friends only got to level 15 before they stopped and never came back. Which is a huge shame.

    This game seems to be very self aware that most MMO's have their best content in the end game, and the end game is at level 37. There is absolutely no reason that players can't get to level 15 and beyond to endgame because SOLO has one of the fastest leveling experiences out of ANY MMO I have played short of pay to win level boosting ones. You can reach max level in like 15-20 hours if you are going at a moderate speed. You will get to level 15 in an hour if you speed run it.

    I even found that after reaching the end game I enjoyed the story of the beginning 15 levels more the second and third time through on the alts with my friends. Despite them being confused and weirded out lol. The story isn't spectacular, but its surprisingly not that bad for a game that rushes you to endgame this fast.

    The Closed Beta 2 is over now, and release will be at some undetermined time in a few weeks to a month supposedly. But I highly recommend that people give SOLO a second try if they only played the first 15 levels then dropped, or if they saw reviews that the game was average and unimpressive. It really is an incredibly well done after level 15.


    The only other issues I can think of (But this gets brought up a lot) is the game isn't amazing optimized and the translations were funky. But the latter issue should get fixed by launch, and the former issue is getting fixed later in the year or so as the Chinese version of the game is getting a large engine update (from Havoc to UE). I think these are very minor issues and shouldn't detract you from trying the game on launch if you have a decent PC. My friends ran it fine on their laptop potato's on low settings.

    The poll has been posted here on these forums, on reddit, and on the discord. So it has a fairly even mix of people across all the major social media communities so far. You don't need a poll of every single player to get an idea on what the player base wants, and evenly distributed random mix of voters can give you a good enough estimate to extrapolate up even with just a couple hundred. That is how modern polling and statistics has worked for a while. I am not saying these are the final results either. Just sharing the progress.

    PK is inherently by its nature, non-optional. The difference between a PK and a PvP conflict is that PvP is opt in and PK is not. So saying the PK should be optional is just turning it into normal PvP and it then ceases to be PK.

    It just feels like a pretty big grey area, because the only solution I can think of that might make most people happy is to split into two servers, a server with pk and a server without it. And you could label them the PvP and non-PvP server. But the differences between them would be marginal. Changing the system to be more lax or more harsh would piss off the other camp quite a bit.

    We already have a world PvP system with factions, and in a dedicated "PvP server" why even have restrictions or debuffs for PK at all? Why send them to prison? The point of the server is to do PvP. Very very few people want unpunished and unrestricted PK (As seen in the poll I made that has almost 100 votes now), but keeping it in with the prison system would feel awkward in a PvP server dedicated to player vs player. It would still be used by only a tiny fraction of the server population.

    Meanwhile what about the PvE server? How would it be substantially different from the PvP one? Yes there would be no PK, but the PK function is likely going to hardly ever be used anyway. What about the other forms of PvP? Will it still have open world PvP via factions? Will it still have arenas? Etc? But why would anyone play them when they could play on the dedicated PvP server where they know PvP is going to flock to?

    As of right now at 93 votes on the poll, 61% of the people think the current PK system is fine and another 14% think it should be less harsh. That is 75% of people that fall into the "Pro-PK" camp. or at least Fine with the current PK system. Would those people be happy to see the community artificially split over such an insignificant system? Lots of people enjoy both PvP and PvE and splitting it into two servers would essentially force people to pick one, or would leave the PvE server pretty dead. Because most people who are fine with both tend to just opt for the PvP server.

    Only about 10% of the people polled so far want to see the system be made even harsher on PKers (but not removed). It definitely seems like people significantly upset with this system are a minority. And trying to label this as a pro-choice argument will only result in fracturing the community over features that most people don't have strong positive or negative opinions about.

    Why is it ok for people to FORCE other people to PvP, while the PKers are able to CHOSE to go to prison? :(

    The same reason it's okay for them to beg and whine about the restrictions being lifted or lessened, but it's NOT okay for others to beg them harsher or even more punishing. I don't understand how anyone at all in the history of (anything really) can be against having options to choose. Do Pk'ers not want people to be able to choose to opt out of it?

    I don't think the kind of PK griefers you are thinking of particularly want to go to Prison... No one has any issues with you asking for harsher punishments. We are just disagreeing with your suggestion. We think the PK system is fine. PK is already in the game, so you need a high justification to validate removing it, and if the justification doesn't feel valid and you don't like the system, then of course people are going to tell you to play a different game. No one is silencing the anti-pk camp.

    I think a fan class would be cool, but of the 4 basic weapons of Chinese Martial arts, we already have the Dao (Future Warrior), the Jian (Spellsword), and the Spear (Spearmaster). I am surprised we don't have any class using a non-magical combat staff. Or just a monk style class in general

    The poll is nice but is missing the point. I am fine with the PK system staying in place, I just want the option to opt out of being content for other players. Some MMO's have PK and non PK servers, since that is not an option people here are asking that they can opt out. I would be fine with never doing the Rampage quest if that opted me out of being a target. There is no point in debating the pros and cons of the PK system as you have about as much chance of changing anyone's mind as you do debating religion or politics. I say to each his/her own. If you want to PK then you should only be able to do that with like minded people (those who also want to rampage) and those who don't want to do that should not have to. Forcing players to do something they do not find as fun is a sure fire way to loose players.

    If its opt out then it isn't really PK though. I don't know any games that have PK servers and non-PK servers, I know games that have PvP servers and non-PvP servers, but they don't have punishments or acknowledge it like PK. PK and PvP are different and as I have said in this thread and many others, they have different use cases. This game allows PK but makes clear that there is going to be punishments.

    I don't see this thread as an attempt to change anyone's mind, its more of an ongoing discussion that GameForge can reference to see the pros and cons of the PK system as well as what the userbase's preferences are.

    I believe there should be an option to opt out of open world PK. Lets face it the only people who don't want that option available are the ones who want to grief and gank. There are a lot of flowery excuses, but that is all they are, and if there is a way to game the system they will find it. This game has plenty of organized PVP options with more to come. If the PK pisses too many people off and changes are not made they will leave. I doubt anyone has accurate numbers on pro PK vs no PK, but I have to think the pro is in the minority. In the end time will tell, and GF will do what they think will get/keep the most players so they make money. The first few months after launch are critical for an MMO to keep players.

    I think this is a strawman and as a pro-pk person I will say that I do not like griefers and see the PK mechanic as an ANTI-griefing tool. However your post brings up a good point about the numbers. I feel like the forums here is a very limited (and sometimes echo-chambery) community, so I made an poll on the SOLO subreddit to see what other peoples thoughts are. Please give your vote to the poll and upvote the post so hopefully we can get a better idea on the numbers. Everyone is free and encouraged to add their opinions there.

    Sadly, there is no option that represents my opinion :(

    Post it in the comments

    I created a poll on the official SOLO subreddit that is trying to collect more statistics on the number of people that want to see the PK system removed, changed, or kept as is. I highly encourage you to vote in that poll, upvote the post, and share your thoughts there, as we might get a better idea on the opinions of the large community.